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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 22 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1549<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: the north american union<BR>
Re: FW: moderator: America, as seen by a Canadian<BR>
Another Draw...?<BR>
Re: China (was: United States)<BR>
Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
Re: Long distance trade and the size of the Imperium<BR>
Re: Spin<BR>
Re: The Death of Q<BR>
Re: liberating Holland<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: The Death of Q<BR>
Re: An illustrated Traveller universe<BR>
Re: San Francisco Trav game<BR>
Re: SF Trav game<BR>
Re: SF Trav game<BR>
Re: SF Trav game<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:48:12 +1300<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: SF Traveller<BR>
In Jokes<BR>
Racial deptictions<BR>
3I Sports<BR>
RE: Rebellious Attitudes<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:06:16 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: the north american union<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Nick said:<BR>
>There's always the Regency/Aslan accomodations post-Collapse.<BR>
<BR>
Aah! _That_ explains the empty rooms at Doug's...<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:15:08 -0600<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: FW: moderator: America, as seen by a Canadian<BR>
<BR>
Amen brother :)<BR>
<BR>
TV<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 16:39:31 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Another Draw...?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 3:29 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > ... I could go on.<BR>
><BR>
> Yeah, and so could I... and that's scary. Let's just call it a draw, shall<BR>
> we?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Oh no!  Not another "What's this 'draw' business?" thread?!?!?!?!?!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 22:36:12 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: China (was: United States)<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:53:49 -0500 (EST) Kenji Schwarz<BR>
<schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
>Hm, what's changed, say, just between Shang and Qing... mode of<BR>
>government, political philosophy, governmental structure and operations,<BR>
>population structure, ecological setting, diet, agricultural and<BR>
>industrial technology, language, literature, arts, kinship system, dress,<BR>
>settlement patterns, religion, ethical philosophy, Pokemon, and RPGs.<BR>
>You're right! The Orient *is* changeless and ancient!<BR>
<BR>
"Emperors come and go, but the Bureaucracy lives on."<BR>
<BR>
Good point about Pokemon, though.  Even the Ziru Siirka fell before Virus.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>No offense meant.<BR>
<BR>
None taken.<BR>
<BR>
>"Often heavy-handed stifling of innovation????"  I'll give you my spot in<BR>
>the department if you can name, say, three imperially-stifled innovations<BR>
>in Chinese history (caveat being that I don't regard armed insurrections<BR>
>as innovations per se.)  That's around one per millenium.<BR>
<BR>
Why should I want to become an ossified tool of the academic establishment?<BR>
 ;)  I make no claim to being a China scholar; the closest I've come is<BR>
reading GURPS China a few times for research.  Strictly a layman's ignorant<BR>
ramblings here.<BR>
<BR>
Just off the top of the head, though:<BR>
<BR>
The trading fleets that represented a brief change from historical<BR>
isolationism, during what the rest of the world came to call the Age of<BR>
Discovery.  The ships were soon called back and destroyed; no profit in<BR>
stirring up the foreign devils.<BR>
<BR>
The man-carrying kite, whose creator was put to death by an Emperor who<BR>
feared its consequences.  (Or was that just a fable?)<BR>
<BR>
Afraid I don't have a third, but a little research (perhaps in the modern<BR>
era) might turn up something.  Tien An Men Square, perhaps, if one counts<BR>
"democracy" as an innovation...<BR>
<BR>
My layman's observation is that Chinese culture values communitarian<BR>
stability and continuity over individual dynamism and disruption.  Look at<BR>
what happened when Disney plucked one (possibly the only) individualist<BR>
story out of Chinese legend, then tried to show it in its country of<BR>
origin.  MULAN bombed in China because she was "too independent, too<BR>
selfish."  Too Western.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  the opening of China, including the Boxer Rebellion, and the N<BR>
Interstellar Wars.  Compare and contrast.  :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a <BR>
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.<BR>
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."<BR>
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:36:36 -0600<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)<BR>
<BR>
How large are your rugby players?<BR>
<BR>
I know that in my views as a Die Hard American football fan, the NFL players<BR>
are reaching the monsterous stage.<BR>
It could have been the beer, but I swear the stats on an Atlanta Tight End<BR>
were  6' 7'' tall and 290+ pounds.  That is a big boy for a receiving TE and<BR>
not a blocker.<BR>
I would hate to be a defensive player who gets bashed by that every time it<BR>
runs a pass route.<BR>
<BR>
Also, we use astro turf, a satanic invention if I every heard of it. Hell,<BR>
even the highschools here play on it. That stuff tears up bodies quickly.<BR>
Isn't Rugby played on real grass?<BR>
Put those padless boys on some good old fashioned devil turf and see how<BR>
they fare.<BR>
It tears up the best of folks<BR>
<BR>
TV<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 19:55:57 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
> >    That's right, the English invented Football . . .<BR>
> >. . . the Australians show them how to play it.<BR>
><BR>
> I'm sure I remember somebody saying that Aussie Rules football is like a<BR>
bar<BR>
> fight. Except that in a bar fight you get to have a drink.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, Aussie rules is based on _Gaelic_  Football, not Association<BR>
Football  ( otherwise known as soccer, because that's what ya to do to the<BR>
wife after the game. )<BR>
<BR>
It's the Brazilians that teach the Brits how to play soccer<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 22:33:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Thom Harris writes:<BR>
>> And no matter what else, a hundred tons is still a hundred tons, the bare<BR>
>> minimum to be a "Star Ship".<BR>
><BR>
> True, but there's still a considerable difference between 100 tons and 200 <BR>
> tons.  If you really want the 'tramp freighter' model you'd probably have to <BR>
> reduce the minimum size of a jump-ship.<BR>
<BR>
I rather expect that a "tramp freighter" is worth considerably than<BR>
you'd think (and I'm talking about the current sea-going type). So<BR>
perhaps we need to reconsider our overly romantic view of tramp<BR>
freighters. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 22:44:57 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Long distance trade and the size of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The talk of the war of 1812 and thinking of British colonies of that era has<BR>
> got me thinking....<BR>
><BR>
> Why is the Imperium as large as it is, and how could it be considered to be<BR>
> a whole? It takes (correct me If I am wrong) a year or two at maximum jump<BR>
> to go from the spinward marches to the Solomani rim. The Imperium exists to<BR>
> facilitate free trade... however, few worlds would ever trade with worlds<BR>
> more than a subsector away. Sectors would surely exist almost entirely in<BR>
> isolation. The cost of transporting goods from one end of a sector to<BR>
> another would be phenomenal (if monthly payments had to be met... I suppose<BR>
> not a problem for the megacorporations...)<BR>
><BR>
> Either way, trade from Britain to the colonies (and later independent<BR>
> states) in the age of sail was not only common but vital for the economy.<BR>
> How frequent is trade over these distances in the Imperium? I would imagine<BR>
> it would have to be carried out by huge vessels that were fully paid off. <BR>
<BR>
You've missed a point. Check out how long it takes to get from core to<BR>
the spinward marches or to the Solomani Rim. Then check out how long it<BR>
took to sail from Britain to India. Also check out what *sort* of goods<BR>
were carried on such voyages.<BR>
<BR>
I'm pretty sure that you'll find that only *high* value cargos that<BR>
couldn't be gotten closer were carried on the 6-month or longer<BR>
voyages. <BR>
<BR>
I see no reason why the same wouldn't be true in the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:16:43 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Spin<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
>Subject: Re: War of 1812<BR>
...<BR>
>Is it really so important to attach 'won' and 'lost' labels to a war?<BR>
>There's really no such thing - there's just the state you're in before it<BR>
>starts and the state you're in when it's over. All else is spin for the plebs.<BR>
<BR>
  Speaking of which, by 1100 there are probably a number of historians<BR>
at Terran universities who have cleverly written revisionist or merely<BR>
alternative interpretations of, say, the Imperial campaign for Terra.<BR>
<BR>
  If you've somehow managed to publish something that paints the attack<BR>
as a horrific attempt to destroy the Solomani cultural heritage (well,<BR>
at TL D-E there's going to be a _lot_ of breakage from misses...) you<BR>
might eventually become someone whom the Party would like to see given<BR>
a department.<BR>
<BR>
  If, on the other hand, you've seriously undermined the Solomani official<BR>
version - intentionally or not - then you'd better hope that you never<BR>
enter Solomani jurisdiction/control; Solsec isn't going to leave marks on<BR>
you until after you've recanted - publicly, extensively, and repeatedly -<BR>
even if it takes years to undo the damage you've done to the cause.<BR>
<BR>
  I understand that there are those who say that half of S&A already reads<BR>
as if the Party ideological boffins had signed off on the final version :><BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:39:45 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Death of Q<BR>
<BR>
From: David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
<BR>
>>    I liked the recent one & they do have a replacement for Q<BR>
>waiting on the<BR>
>>wings.<BR>
><BR>
> Yes, but he won't be *Q*. There has always been just one Q--007 may<BR>
>come and go, as well as M, Moneypenney, and just about everybody<BR>
>else, but  Q is a constant ...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    True, he will not be "Q", but at least they have someone that can step<BR>
into the role.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:01:59 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: liberating Holland<BR>
<BR>
>From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
...<BR>
>flamebait issues. As for the War of 1812, it's pretty much our only major<BR>
>military victory, other than (maybe) downing the Red Baron, Juno Beach and<BR>
>liberating Holland.<BR>
<BR>
  ISTR that liberating Holland was a parole condition to make up for <BR>
helping to liberate France :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:02:07 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>>challenge was not taken up doesn't change the dubious nature of the claim<BR>
>>that no invasion took place, but that's more something for the Brits to<BR>
>>whine about :><BR>
><BR>
>Er, the challenge was so taken up, in Ireland. That's a part of what all this<BR>
>stuff in Ulster is about (or at least part of the tradition of troubles). As to<BR>
>"then-current-regime" - the King was removed by Parliament and replaced with<BR>
>someone with better protestant credentials. In the modern sense, the best<BR>
>description would be a coup.<BR>
<BR>
  Sure, but once the option of military resistance in England proper was <BR>
foregone the issue was settled; Ireland could at best hope to secure its<BR>
own liberty over a period of years, not to overthrow the new regime.<BR>
<BR>
  And the King being "removed by Parliament" was screamingly illegal, as<BR>
the entirety of English political discourse in the century had concluded.<BR>
Not that Charles the First had complained past a certain point :><BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1982 22:34:32 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Death of Q<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
> From: David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
> <BR>
> > Aargh! I missed that ... you realize this means they're not allowed<BR>
> >to make any more Bond movies. Not that the recent ones really count<BR>
> >anyway (gag).<BR>
> <BR>
>     I liked the recent one & they do have a replacement for Q waiting on<BR>
> the wings.<BR>
<BR>
I understand that John Cleese plays R, Q's protege, in the current Bond<BR>
film.  It could be that the powers that be decided that it was time that<BR>
Q retire ... with extreme prejudice.  I mean, it's Her Majesty's Secret<BR>
Service.  They can do that sort of thing.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 03:14:25 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: An illustrated Traveller universe<BR>
<BR>
From: Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>     It's the Barbie Doll Theory, they make one in a colour to suit you.<BR>
>I'm sure Japanese RPGers see the majority of the races as asian<BR>
>and Nigerian players see them as African.<BR>
<BR>
It's *not* the Barbie Doll theory in this case. It's quite the opposite. The<BR>
Barbie Doll theory requires a certain degree of self-consciousness to work.<BR>
The point is that they *do* make them in a wide spectrum of colors. Charles<BR>
pointed out a very different situation.<BR>
<BR>
>It doesn't matter what the illustrations are, it's in your mind.<BR>
<BR>
Except when there are illustrations on the page, then it's not really in<BR>
your mind anymore, is it? After all, the whole point of putting pictures<BR>
with text is to visually bring that text to life.<BR>
<BR>
Sci-fi is a largely white genre. At least here in America, a walk into the<BR>
sci-fi aisle of any bookstore will bear that fact out. Just look at the<BR>
covers. That's not an indictment of the sci-fi industry, if I wanted to post<BR>
such an indictment I could find better places and better ways to do so.<BR>
<BR>
Roleplaying is a largely white industry. It's not politically correct, nor<BR>
politically incorrect, to recognize this fact. I doubt that anybody would be<BR>
really surprised by such a statement. It's just the way things happen to be<BR>
right now.<BR>
<BR>
It naturally follows those two facts that the artists for a sci-fi<BR>
roleplaying game are going to most likely be white. There's also a very good<BR>
chance that, given the overwhelming whiteness of sci-fi imagery, that<BR>
illustrations will fall in-line with the status quo.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not making a value judgement here, nor was I doing so in my original<BR>
post. I was merely giving my reason for saying that the illustrations in<BR>
Traveller materials don't reflect the biological "realities" of the Third<BR>
Imperium. They reflect certain facts that exist outside of the game.<BR>
<BR>
However, I do think that it's a serious mistake to write off illustrations<BR>
as irrelevant. Illustrations have massive power in shaping how people think<BR>
about things. This is especially true in science-fiction, for the simple<BR>
fact that sci-fi has walked hand-in-hand with other forms of visual media<BR>
since its inception.<BR>
<BR>
Illustrations in roleplaying games are especially important. As an example,<BR>
here's a little test. I'll list a bunch of words, and you tell me what pops<BR>
into your mind:<BR>
<BR>
kobold, Trepida / Intrepid grav tank, S-Class Scout/Courier, Kinunir Class<BR>
Colonial Cruiser, (Arch)Duke Norris, Droyne, red dragon, modular cutter<BR>
<BR>
A long time ago, in a thread about the future of Traveller, I commented on<BR>
the importance of setting up a "visual tapestry" for the game universe. My<BR>
original goal in life was to become a graphic designer and illustrator, and<BR>
as a result I've learned *never* to underestimate the power of illustration.<BR>
I can draw all varieties of AD&D dragons in my sleep, simply because a<BR>
"visual tapestry" existed in the early days of that game. A red dragon<BR>
always had a specific facial structure. Kobolds, whether drawn by Dee or<BR>
Otus always looked like *kobolds*. Later on, TSR got sloppy. Dragons and<BR>
sub-humanoid races looked like whatever the artist wanted them when he or<BR>
she was painting or drawing them. This post isn't an indictment of TSR<BR>
either, so I'll leave it at that.<BR>
<BR>
When Jesse says he's going for a better (illustrated) Traveller universe, I<BR>
suspect he's got a similar idea in mind. Countless Beowulfs, Donosevs,<BR>
Xboats and "Puking Dogs" later, everybody knows what these ships look like.<BR>
Who can think of the Aslan without thinking of the fantastic Kieth<BR>
illustrations? Or the Trepida / Intrepid grav tank without thinking of the<BR>
scads of illustrations which brought the vehicle to life?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:37:07 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: San Francisco Trav game<BR>
<BR>
Keith Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ross and I were talking about the possibility of a once a month game in the<BR>
> Bay Area, however nothing was really decided.  We had a good time talking<BR>
> about favorite games, and styles of play.  If people are serious about<BR>
> getting together and playing a once a month game in the SF area, then I<BR>
> would recommend getting ahold of me at reverendkeith@hotmail.com and<BR>
> sorting all this out.<BR>
<BR>
I could definatly go for this.<BR>
<BR>
> Obviously, I am curious as to what people would like to play (G:T, CT, MT,<BR>
> something else?), but I am more curious if there is actually a desire by<BR>
> fellow SF TML'ers to start up and sustain a game. . .<BR>
<BR>
 Start with CT then improvise.....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn,<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:39:27 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Memorial Day Weekend is BayCon, IIRC, so the game oughta' be there.  Not to<BR>
> mention Doug is hosting a Strephon Silver Jubilee party.<BR>
<BR>
Ok I'm in...... No divorce this year to start the ball rolling thou......<BR>
<BR>
> Bring armor and<BR>
> guns (props of course :) as it should be fun!<BR>
<BR>
 Don't forget the cheap cigars.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn,<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:41:17 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> IIRC, BayCon is held in San Jose (at least it was in 1985, when I<BR>
> attended).<BR>
><BR>
> If there will be a significant TML presence there, I'll have to try to<BR>
> come up with the funding to attend myself.<BR>
<BR>
Ok its a date. The Year2 Gathering of the TML at BayCon.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:42:19 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Nope. Work is evil.<BR>
<BR>
Bummer, been there.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with<BR>
wisdom. We have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes<BR>
knocking on our door. Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:48:12 +1300<BR>
From: "Mike Smith" <mjsmith@staff.salcom.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:48:12 +1300<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:54:33 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >No you didn't, you gave them that strange game with body armour, a<BR>
> >rugby ball and commercial breaks, and basketball.<BR>
><BR>
> <Giles> I've always found it odd that a nation which prides itself on its<BR>
> virility feels it has to strap on forty pounds of body armour just to play<BR>
> Rugby....</Giles><BR>
<BR>
 Damn.... I always prided myself on a dry keyboard.......<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 01:10:45 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, if I get the (smallish) apartment I'm looking at (near Market on<BR>
> Beale) there is a rec room with plenty of room and couches and a kitchen<BR>
> attached and what have you, in addition to my own living/dining room.<BR>
<BR>
 Will cross fingers.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:12:20 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: In Jokes<BR>
<BR>
>ObObTrav: Does anyone else pepper their Traveller universes with all manner<BR>
>of in-jokes that nobody will ever get?<BR>
><BR>
I don't bother... my players tend to put in their own in-jokes...<BR>
<BR>
Well, not exactly true... I have a few.<BR>
For Ex: Thud! Smack! Dingle, Dingle, Dingle! MrrRowf! [repeat until DC gets<BR>
bored or has something else to do.]<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, a 30 kilo, sentient (Well, we're not sure of that, as it was a PC)<BR>
genetically modified bobcat tends not to be punished for playing with HIS<BR>
toys, rather than the other PC's "toys".<BR>
<BR>
And the infamous (locally) "I Assault Him!"<BR>
It seems a player had fallen asleep during the game. His character, who was<BR>
a psionicist, was the ship's grunt, a Vargr, and had just encountered a<BR>
teleport marine in engineering... after having started into the crawlways<BR>
himself. Rules in force TNE except for psionics, which were MT rules, but<BR>
with TNE Skill checks.<BR>
<BR>
GM (Me): Hey Sid! You're facing a Zho Marine, in Combat Armor.<BR>
Sid: (grogily) Hunh? I psionic Assault Him.... (restart snoring)<BR>
GM: Sid!, Snap out of it...<BR>
Sid: Hunh? oh yeah... well, does it work?<BR>
GM: Uh, Sid, you're out of points.<BR>
Sid: I shoot him. (eyes roll shut again)<BR>
GM: You don't have your gun pointing the right way.<BR>
Sid: Oh... uh... I Kick Him! (Note: both were in combat armour, otherwise<BR>
this would have hurt) Critical Success!<BR>
GM: Ok, Ow... He's still up. Eat one FGMP blast.<BR>
Sid: Not a problem, you say it hit the tail?<BR>
GM: Yeah.<BR>
Sid: Fine, I have initiative 6, I kick him AGAIN.<BR>
(several exchanges later, Sid's Vargr kicks the marine to death, while<BR>
never even losing consciousness, after eating several FGMP 14 shots at<BR>
point blank, fragments included. We swittched to MT shortly thereafter..<BR>
like two weeks.)<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 04:17:59 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Racial deptictions<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca> types:<BR>
<BR>
>BTW, I only skimmed the thread on Zhodani and Vilani races, but it occurs<BR>
>to me that just about every pic I've seen of either of these groups<BR>
>portrays a white person.  Did they have suns with lower UV or something?<BR>
>Or do we just have to accept that it's a marketing/artist's bias kinda<BR>
>thing?  Actually, the latter seems like the necessary explanation, as<BR>
>most Solomani are portrayed as white also...<BR>
<BR>
Part of it has to do with the nature of printing. Aside from the covers, <BR>
which are in color, most artwork in Traveller is lineart. Black on white. <BR>
This means that the subtle differences in skintone of, say, the UV-starved <BR>
Zhodani (their star is K0-V) or the even more UV-starved Vilani (though see <BR>
below) require great subtlety of technique. For lineart, olive-skinned (the <BR>
Zhodani) or pasty (the Vilani, IMHO) is all "white."<BR>
<BR>
 Looking up the luminosities of these two stars shows why these particular <BR>
races are "white". Pliebr has a luminosity of 0.42 (Sol = 1.0), while Vlands <BR>
main star is actually a bit of a mystery. The sector listings for Vland list <BR>
a K8-V (lumin. = 0.06!), while the text from V&V mentions a "hot, F-type <BR>
star" of luminosity 1.21. Both citations are from V&V, by the way, so it <BR>
seems that the DGP holdings just got a little less valuable...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 01:40:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: 3I Sports<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller...IMTU gravball is more akin to handball<BR>
than anything else,<BR>
ie non-contact.  I think most folks run it a little<BR>
differently. What other games are popular in<BR>
YTU's?Eris<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, Gladiators! Where people get together in those<BR>
power-loader suits (like in Aliens) and battle it out!<BR>
Yes, manslaughter is decriminalised on the world where<BR>
this happens... though they're not allowed to mount<BR>
guns, blasters, any kind of projectile weapon... just<BR>
swords, axes, clubs, industrial power saws... Brutal,<BR>
but popular!<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 02:31:43 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Rebellious Attitudes<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: Rebellious Attitudes (was: RE: the north american union)<BR>
...<BR>
>> I take it this means you are anti-Fed?<BR>
><BR>
>Nope - I just want my government to follow the laws - just like I have to.  <BR>
><BR>
>Is that so wrong?<BR>
<BR>
  Hasn't the USG made a habit out of illegal action since the mid-nineteenth<BR>
century or so? It's certainly not a very recent trend, in any case.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1549<BR>
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